“Our goal is to reach into their brain, get their ideas, their tone of voice, their stories, and then tell them in a way that’s really digestible to the reader.”—Mindi Zissman
In this #ContentChat recap, Erika Heald is joined by Mindi Zissman, a seasoned ghostwriter for B2B businesses specializing in risk, insurance, and compliance, to discuss how content marketing teams can effectively partner with ghostwriters. They dispel common misconceptions about ghostwriting and explain what it takes to empower ghostwriters to deliver great brand thought leadership content.
Watch the entire conversation on YouTube or read through the highlights below.
The Difference Between Ghostwriting and Other Content Creation
Ghostwriters create content on behalf of an expert or executive who is credited as the author.
“We are the writers, and the expert or the executive that we write for, they’re the authors. If you think about it like that, the author’s name is the name that’s on the piece. Our name really never goes on the piece.”—Mindi Zissman
“People think that everything out there with someone’s name on it was 100% created by them, but frequently they’re the author, but not necessarily the person that put together that content package.”—Erika Heald
“More and more people know today that it’s normal and regular, and people assume most people don’t write their own stuff. But years ago, I used to get on calls, and very often the first thing people would say to me was, ‘I just want to say I’m so disappointed that my peers have not been writing their own stuff. I had no idea you’ve been working with them.’”—Mindi Zissman
Ghostwriters excel at extracting ideas from an expert and reflecting their tone and expertise in a digestible way across content formats.
“We differ from copywriters [and] book writers in the way that we are actually taking the ideas of the executive or the expert that we’re writing for, and we’re pulling them out of their brain and getting them all out on paper; using their voice, their tone, their ideas, their expertise. That’s the main goal, and then creating it with a better user experience than they might have.”—Mindi Zissman
“Very often we talk to experts and executives who have a ton of knowledge in the space, but they just don’t know how to do the writing. We are able to get that information out of their brain. A big piece of it is the interview and the questions that are asked.”—Mindi Zissman
“We’re working on a client’s website right now, and a copywriter might just do some research online about the different products that they offer and create some cool copy that’s not necessarily tied to the business, but about that product. [We as ghostwriters] are going to interview the product manager for each of those pages, for each of those products, each of those services. We’re going to find out about their specific niche in the industry. Why you? Why this company? Why should people want to work with you, or buy this product, or use your service instead of the exact same one at the competitor? And then we’re going to tailor the content for that audience specifically.”—Mindi Zissman
Many experts lack the necessary skill to write content for various channels to achieve their goals, so ghostwriters fill that gap.
“The last time a lot of these executives wrote something was like a term paper in college or law school. And that’s not the goal of a blog, it’s not the goal of an annual report, it’s not the goal of a LinkedIn post [or] LinkedIn article, it’s not the goal of a Forbes or Fast Company piece.”—Mindi Zissman
Great ghostwriters create content that experts are excited to share.
“It’s all about your ability to have those conversations with people, understand where they’re coming from, and really being able to capture their voice. At the end of the day, you want to create something that they don’t just put their name on, but they actually share it with their network, saying, I wrote this thing. Because even though you’re the one who interviewed them and you structured it, they did write it, because they’re the ones who had the points, they shared their experiences, and it’s in their voice.”—Erika Heald
“Ghostwriting is one of the oldest professions, if you really think about it. How many books do we read from our politicians? Some of our most famous people who have really great ideas, they’re real thought leaders. They just don’t have time to get their ideas out. They don’t have the language because, like I said, if they would write something, it would still be like a law professor paper. So we take care of the time element for them. We manage that. We still are able to capture their voice and then kind of put it out into the masses.”—Mindi Zissman
Capturing a Thought Leader’s Voice and Expertise
Ghostwriting requires active input and participation from the expert who is credited as the author. Otherwise, it’s just content creation.
“One of the other big misconceptions is people feel like you don’t even need a real ghostwriter, you can just outsource creating bylines to an agency. Having been on the receiving end, in my brief stint in an agency, of those kinds of requests where you never get to talk to that thought leader—and instead, maybe you have a comms person or whoever your contact is saying here’s what they want to talk about—it’s inevitably some really boring, broad topic. I can create content on that and they can put their name on it, but this isn’t going to be thought leadership, and I’m not going to be ghostwriting. To ghostwrite, you do have to have the input from that expert. Yes, you can outsource the actual creation of the piece, but you can’t outsource the relationship, the understanding, the thinking, and the conversation.”—Erika Heald
“I can always come up with something for someone who I’ve been working with for years, because I know how they think. That’s the whole point of what we do. And I know what they might want to say, and I know how they might want to say it. But in a brand new relationship, it’s very difficult for us to be able to pull something out of someone’s head and we don’t have access to their head.”—Mindi Zissman
Not everyone is a thought leader or wants to be one. Identify 1-2 prime thought leadership candidates, often subject matter experts, to start your ghostwriting.
“Not everybody’s a thought leader. Not every expert, not every executive, is a thought leader. Some of them prefer not to be a thought leader.”—Mindi Zissman
“For businesses trying to create thought leadership, start slow and pick one or two leaders that are, in fact, thought leaders. Start with them. Get their ideas out there. Someone who is a ready, willing, eager participant. Someone who has great ideas. Someone who does have leading thoughts. It will be very difficult and very much uphill if you’re starting with somebody and you’re kind of pulling teeth.”—Mindi Zissman
Thought leadership and ghostwriting require a relationship. It takes time for the ghostwriter to understand the thought leader and best convey their unique voice and ideas.
“It’s really a relationship. We create these relationships with the executives and the leaders that we seek to work with, and it goes both ways. So just like hiring anybody in your business, the beginning of that relationship always takes more time from both sides and then a few months in you see the fruits of that labor; where we’re able to create things that really are in line with their brain, and we’re able to help them really get their word out in a super effective way.”—Mindi Zissman
“Primarily, my ghostwriting is part of my fractional content leader services. I usually have a couple of clients that I have long term retainers with, and those are the executives that I end up doing the ghostwriting for, because I’m in meetings with them, I’m in strategy sessions, and I get to know them. I spend time with them, so it’s a lot easier to then channel my inner thought leader, because I’m channeling them, because I can hear their voice in my head, quite literally.”—Erika Heald
Building Thought Leadership Through Ghostwriting
Content distribution is a major component of thought leadership development and effective sales enablement.
“The interviewing and the writing is just one piece of it. A huge piece of it is distribution. And that could look like anything… Forbes and Fast Company, you could be a thought leader for those organizations. They have boards, Forbes does it by discipline, so they have a Finance Board, CFO board, Human Resources Board, etc. And sometimes they put out questions and ask the executives questions that will be put into articles. Those are pay-to-play opportunities.”—Mindi Zissman
“That’s the essence of thought leadership, being able to give your advice and being able to provide that kind of information before somebody buys from you. We’ve all heard the statistics [that] you have to read something three to five times before somebody even reaches out to a sales team. And where are they getting that information? They’re reading articles that you’ve authored as executives and experts. They’re reading white papers, ebooks, blogs that businesses have put out and authored. They’re reading stuff in trade publishing. They’re reading stuff on LinkedIn. Everybody is doing their research before they reach out to your sales team.”—Mindi Zissman
LInkedIn offers powerful content distribution opportunities. Update your thought leader’s LinkedIn profile to drive the most value on the channel.
“LinkedIn has a ton of opportunities to create a newsletter, write articles, and create posts. [Share] your own business email newsletter that goes out, whether that goes internally to your teammates, or externally to your potential prospects, current customers, etc.”—Mindi Zissman
Explore content opportunities with industry publications.
“Trade publishing. So magazines, anything in the trades, the industry magazines; those are a phenomenal place to exercise your thought leadership and really get your name out and your business’s name out.”—Mindi Zissman
Create content that provides value to your community and teaches them something new.
“Always be giving. Be giving advice. Be teaching. Provide opportunities for the people in your target market to learn from you, instead of selling.”—Mindi Zissman
“That, to me, is really the difference between doing content and doing content marketing. You can make content that’s about your product or about the company, but content marketing is about giving. It’s about giving people a new point of view, something to help them do their jobs better, or even sparking inspiration or sparking new ideas. Ghostwriters are really well equipped to help their thought leaders figure out how they can do all of that, so they’re not just focusing on the corporate messaging points. Because nobody wants to hear those.”—Erika Heald
Navigating Transparency and Ethics in Ghostwriting
AI is building a profile on everyone. Ghostwriters must be conscious to not convey too much of their personal experience or ideas into ghostwritten content, because then content with their byline might be flagged as plagiarism.
“Especially when you have a specific niche, you have a specific area of expertise, you have to be very careful about ensuring that you’re not injecting too much of your own content or your own experience into what you’re creating, because AI and all of these other tools are building a profile of everyone. And they’re going to start saying these ideas belong to Mindi, even if I was the ghostwriter, for example. And you can end up in kind of a sticky situation where you can look like you’re plagiarizing this person you ghostwrite for, because you did have some of those experiences that you included as examples.”—Erika Heald
Genuine thought leadership and unique ideas are essential for standing out from AI-created content.
“Those businesses that are creating thought leadership will stand out in this world of content created by AI. Original ideas and original writing is what is going to come to the top in the water and oil in the cup. AI sounds very similar over and over, using the same words. It’s pulling from the same database of information on the internet. And I think the businesses and the executives and the real thought leaders that do want to stand out will be creating their own personal content.”—Mindi Zissman
Gain client approval before sharing that you’ve ghostwritten for them.
“When you’re talking with a potential client, they’ll say, ‘I’d love to see some examples of your ghostwriting.’ And I always say of course not, no, absolutely not. Sometimes they’re a little taken aback. But the thing is, if somebody hasn’t included me as a contributor or as a ‘with’ on that byline, I absolutely will not ever share that. I will sometimes give the information of [this] is my client and I did ghostwriting for them, because that, to me, isn’t crossing the ethical boundary, as long as I know that they are someone that would be fine with it, which isn’t all of my clients.”—Erika Heald
“I do share the content that we’ve created for businesses, if they’re okay with it. I put it on our website. I actually even assume that they’re okay with it, unless they say otherwise. I’ve had very few clients tell me at the outset of an engagement, ‘we want to work with you, but we don’t want it to be clear that we work with you.’ Most businesses, I find, are okay with it. Obviously, I’m not out there publishing the pieces that we work with on LinkedIn or something like that, but I do have a whole portfolio on my website, and people can go there and see a lot of the work we’ve done. Again, like I said, not everything, because there are some clients who aren’t interested.”—Mindi Zissman
Be prepared to explain why it’s OK for you to represent multiple clients in the same industry. NDAs are an essential safeguard.
“Every once in a while, a client who is considering hiring me asks, ‘If you work with my competitors, how can I trust you to work with me? And my answer always is—besides, obviously, signing something that says anything I learn and work with you about will stay with your company—if I didn’t work with your competitors, I wouldn’t be so valuable to you. Because I work in this industry over and over and over, I know the industry well.”—Mindi Zissman
“When people say, ‘But you work for my competitor?’ it’s like, are you exactly the same as that other person? Do you have the exact same perspectives and experiences? No, of course not. So it’s no different than why would a magazine interview all of you.”—Erika Heald
“In commercial insurance brokers, in the small to medium sized business space, I have multiple clients in that space, and they all have even different pieces of that niche. Some of them might work in certain industries. Whatever it is, I find that they all attack it from a different perspective. They have different experts within the business that they want to put forward and shine through. And they really do have a different perspective of each niche. So even working with competitors, the biggest crossover I find is just on topics, but less on what we do with those topics, how we approach it, and then what their exact clientele is.”—Mindi Zissman
Finding the Right Ghostwriter for Your Industry and Needs
Ask your industry peers and friends if they’ve worked with any ghostwriters they can recommend.
“I hear from people that I work with that they asked peers of theirs in their particular industry. So word of mouth. Reach out to people. Reach out to people that you’ve met at conferences, that you know in your industry, even at a competitor of yours that you have friendly competition across the aisle.”—Mindi Zissman
“Word of mouth and asking your network is the smartest way to start, because then you’re not just getting random names. You’re getting people that folks that you’ve worked with, and that you know you’re compatible working with, giving you referrals to people that they’ve worked with. And the reason I mentioned that is we all have very different working styles, and you can end up in that situation where somebody might be a really great ghostwriter, but they’re not going to be a good fit for you and your style, because they either don’t have that expertise or they just have a different approach. Someone who knows you is going to give you a much more nuanced kind of introduction, warm referral.”—Erika Heald
Attend trade shows and industry events to get connected with writers.
“At the trade shows that you go to, talk to people, network, see what they’re doing, find people like that. I go to a lot of the insurance shows and the insurance marketer shows. I’m speaking, talking, connecting with people.”—Mindi Zissman
“I speak at a lot of conferences and events, and looking at those agendas and seeing who is out there talking and creating content about the topics that your thought leaders want to be known for is a fantastic way to [find options]. Those folks may or may not be ghostwriters, but I guarantee they’re going to know who the people are in their industry that are ghostwriting, because if they’re not doing it themselves, then maybe they’re working with somebody who’s ghostwriting for them.”—Erika Heald
And LinkedIn is a great place to find ghostwriters.
“People have found me on LinkedIn as well. I would say about 30% of our business comes directly from LinkedIn. So those are people who either I reached out to in a direct message because I said that they were in our target market, or they reached out to me.”—Mindi Zissman
Common Pitfalls to Avoid When Working with a Ghostwriter
Managing expectations is crucial for ghostwriting success.
“Managing expectations is a major piece of it, and that onus really belongs to the marketing team; that they can prepare that executive and prepare their own team for what the commitment of both their executive and the ghostwriter will be, so that everybody is really on the same page. It’s one of the reasons I like working with teams who we’ve been successful with before, over and over.”—Mindi Zissman
The thought leader needs to provide actual thoughts, not samples of writing styles they want to emulate.
“I had one client previously whose marketing team did not do a great job working with him as the business owner and operator, and they weren’t able to really prepare him for what the work with me would constitute. And so what happened was the partnership just sizzled out over time, because he didn’t understand what I was expected to do, and he didn’t understand that he would have to put in some time to speak to me. He wanted to just show me a style of writing that he likes, and he knew I know the industry, and he wanted me to just be able to go with it. I don’t even know if he had leading thoughts or not.He had a great, phenomenal startup in the insurance space, but it was unclear if he even had really amazing thoughts, because he wanted me to be his thought leader instead of his ghostwriter.”—Mindi Zissman
The content and marketing team should discuss what they’re working on so the ghostwriter can find ways to amplify their work—especially if it’s a research report.
“The content team has the opportunity to make sure that you as the ghostwriter can get that executive summary level of what the marketing team is working on. Do they have proprietary data or research? Because your thought leader might not even think to say it to you, or worse yet, they might quote some of those statistics and not tell you that it’s their own data, and that’s the best stuff to include when you’re writing for them. Because, of course, then you can also include that link back to their owned content, which is the holy grail. Some publications won’t allow it, but on the flip side, I know that with Fast Company, for example, I’ve gotten them to include a number of links, because it was to really good, owned content that was about research. If it is proprietary data or proprietary research and you haven’t hidden it behind a form, you can get those links.”—Erika Heald
Establish a clear, and streamlined, chain of approvals.
“The million cooks in the kitchen after the article has been drafted, that is always one of the biggest pitfalls… One of the reports we did had to have more than 20 people sign off on it. Now we all know that when you get more than 20 people in a room on any topic, whether you’re all the experts in it or not, it’s pretty much a disaster, right?”—Mindi Zissman
“When you can, take the top person in each vertical market, or however your business is organized, and make them the subject matter experts who need a sign off. That is a lot better than a ton of people downstream, even if you only interviewed those people downstream to be able to bring it up to the higher ups and let them unilaterally sign off on it, whether it’s specific sections of a report or you’re just dealing with one blog and you just have one author.”—Mindi Zissman
“You can run into this in organizations that, ironically, have the best governance and documentation in place, because they’ll have their style guide, which has their defined brand voice, they’ll have the messaging documents, and they’ll have all of this really great stuff if you’re a content creator. But the problem is, they’ll frequently have the expectation that you will be applying all of that to the thought leadership content. And the problem with that is that under zero circumstances should the person, the thought leader, the expert mirror the brand voice. It should be complementary to the company’s brand voice, but they’re not going to use the exact same terms of phrase. They’re not going to have the exact same voice, because that would be inappropriate and it wouldn’t serve the objectives for creating thought leadership.”—Erika Heald
And don’t make ‘perfect’ the enemy of ‘good.’
“Don’t make perfect the enemy of good. And I’m not saying that every piece that you should put out should be a B+. I think everything should be an A. But if you have situations like too many people in the approval process, or an executive that’s not really forthcoming with real deep thoughts, or a marketing team that is very small… there are so many reasons why putting out content that’s really solid and very good is the best idea at the moment, rather than working so hard to create something that’s perfect and missing things like optimal distribution, ability to repurpose, and how to put something out there and get it on all the different channels that you’re on.”—Mindi Zissman
Ghostwriter Recommendations for Thought Leadership
If your organization is seeking ghostwriting support or recommendations, Mindi is a perfect resource for risk, compliance, and insurance organizations. If you’re in the B2B or specialty food space, reach out to us here so we can see how we can help.
