“We can bring creativity back into content marketing now. We’ve kind of pushed it out. ’Yeah, we don’t need creativity. We’re doing content marketing. Trying to sell stuff.’ The problem is: Everybody else is doing that. How are you going to be memorable among the other 50,000 companies doing the exact same thing?”—Todd Jones
In this #ContentChat recap, Erika Heald is joined by Todd Jones, founder of Copyflight, to discuss what marketers can learn about great storytelling from professional wrestling. Todd blends his love for wrestling and great storytelling in this blog post, which he expands on during the chat.
Watch the entire conversation on YouTube or read through the highlights below.
For more insights on storytelling for content marketing, check out these chat recaps:
- How to Use Visual Storytelling to Create Better Brand and Thought Leadership Content with Dayana Cadet
- Story Mapping for the B2B Buyer’s Journey with Carmen Hill
Q1: Why is storytelling so important for crafting engaging brand messages?
Storytelling is a powerful way to engage your audience and build relationships.
“There’s been a lot of back and forth over the past couple of years with people. ‘Marketers need to cut it out with the storytelling. Everyone’s tired of it.’ Which is kind of weird, because you’re like, well, aren’t we all talking to humans? And isn’t the way that humans incorporate information and build relationships; Isn’t it about storytelling?”—Erika Heald
However, many organizations struggle with effective storytelling.
“The problem was a few years ago, [it was] more of a buzzword [but] it wasn’t really being done. And maybe they put something out there and they call it storytelling. It’s not really storytelling, maybe not effective storytelling.”—Todd Jones
Q2: How does wrestling offer storytelling lessons content marketers can draw from?
Storytelling builds an emotional connection. The best wrestlers (and those who keep their jobs) have compelling story arcs that take the audience on an emotional journey.
“You have to make them feel. And that’s an emotional connection. And there’s a lot of sub-points under that. But one thing you’ll learn if you watch wrestling long enough is that if a wrestler or a performer fails to make their audience feel something for them, they usually don’t last very long.”—Todd Jones
“I will use Roman Reigns, who ended his reign at WrestleMania. For about three years, he was the champion, and in the process, he was a heel. Heel is the villain. He did everything he could to keep the belt, and he went from good guy to bad guy, which is always an evolution to watch. He started being more heel, and he really did get heat from the fans, because he kept beating all the babyfaces by cheating or whatever. But toward the end of his reign, it was not just the heat he had—but a mutual respect from fans. So it was one of those things where he came to the ring and half the fans were doing his thing and the other half were booing him. You have gotten to a new level as a wrestler if you can get half the arena to boo you and half [cheering] you. That’s rare.”—Todd Jones
“What I call the greatest babyface promotion of all time [is from] Dusty Rhodes. I recommend anybody listening [to] this [to read my] article, [which has] the link to the promo he did called Hard Times. One three-minute segment shows you exactly how you can make someone feel. A lot of what we do tapping [is] into emotions that are already there. He took his own story of hard times and tapped into [emotions]—and this is the mid-80s, but you could still do [this approach] in ‘24 [and] it would make sense.”—Todd Jones
“Good storytelling is not just tell but show. And one of the ways I showed was adding links. Basically, all are linked YouTube videos, embeds.”—Todd Jones
Q3: How can content marketing teams create a villain in their story?
All content should help your hero overcome the challenges they’re facing. You can turn this challenge into a villain for compelling storytelling.
“Especially in B2B content marketing, which is where I spend the bulk of my time, I think [having a villain] is an underutilized way or approach to the content that you’re creating. But at the end of the day, when you think about what is your objective when you’re creating content for your audience, you’re trying to help them overcome a challenge. There’s something that is plaguing them. So that thing that they’re trying to overcome, that problem that is every day popping up, and making their workday a pain—That is the villain in your story.”—Erika Heald
“You can—and this is going outside the lines of what we normally do in B2B—give it a name [or] person. Slow-booting computer is like a sloth, and it’s Larry the sloth. Larry the sloth does not want you to boot your computer up fast. And we’re here to slay Larry the sloth.”—Todd Jones
“The Princess Bride, by the way, has a wrestler. In the movie, Andre the Giant played the big man. And the guy who’s trying to rescue the princess has got all these different obstacles to overcome. Whatever it is that your person, the people you’re talking to, is trying to overcome; that is a villain.”—Todd Jones
If you conduct a great customer case study interview, you can create engaging case studies that put the villain front and center.
“This is why I like customer stories so much. There are a lot of different ways to use customer stories, case studies, and that kind of thing. But if you have a customer, especially if they use your product or service to overcome their villain, there is no better, persuasive story than to tell that story.”—Todd Jones
Your favorite films offer great examples of villains and storytelling, as Donald Miller explains in his book Building a Storybrand (which is one of our most recommended books for content marketers).
“You are the Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Yoda for [your customer’s] Luke Skywalker character who overcomes Darth Vader. I was kind of reminded of it when I got the Donald Miller book Story Brand. He kind of framed it that way; George Lucas used the Joseph Campbell Hero’s Journey framework, and George Lucas tapped into that, and Donald does the same thing with the book. But the key element to that is reframing a couple of things. You want your customer to be the protagonist. You, as a business consultant or whatever, want to be the Obi-Wan to the Luke Skywalker, the Yoda to the Luke Skywalker, which is your customer. And then the villain personified, you might say is the Republic or It’s Darth Vader. It’s the Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, whoever you’re trying to overcome. So a villain is really a personification of the thing that your customer is trying to overcome.”—Todd Jones
“And you can’t make your customer the hero if you don’t have that villain for them to play against. Because you have to evoke that emotion, you have to have that villain.”—Erika Heald
Q4: What are underdog tale examples that make for compelling content marketing?
Americans love underdog stories.
“In America, in particular, we love underdog stories. There’s just something that’s so compelling about coming from behind and having that unexpected ability to persevere. And I think it’s a lot of us can relate to that, because we’ve been in those situations.”—Erika Heald
The founding of Walmart was an underdog tale.
“A friend of mine posted a picture outside of the old 5&10 [Five and Dime] in Bentonville, Arkansas. And it reminded me of a fella named Sam Walton. Obviously, he’s a legend in the state of Arkansas, where I’m from. He started Walmart. He was indeed the underdog. At the time, you had a lot of general stores, not a whole lot of national stores, but you had a lot of general stores, and he started one: The old 5&10. And he grew it, and he was just a guy, a common guy from Arkansas. You’d think ‘How’s he going to be able to compete with the big retailers of the time?’ and somehow he did.”—Todd Jones
News segments during the Olympics often spotlight underdogs.
“This summer is the Olympics. We have our US gymnastics team, and Simone Biles is going back. In fact, there’s a kid who’s like 16 years old and made the track team. That would be an underdog stories race, and he’s actually competing against men twice his age. And during the Olympics, they will highlight those stories. There’s [also] the old Jamaican bobsled team that that was made into a movie.”—Todd Jones
“Somebody who wasn’t supposed to win will win something. We do like [underdog tales] because it makes us think we have a chance to be successful, too, in spite of where we come from. And those stories are all around us, not just in sports.”—Todd Jones
TV show producers, like those for the Great British Baking Show/Great British Bake Off, know that underdogs can create compelling TV.
“With the Great British Baking Show, they’ve done a really good job of understanding these different kinds of archetypes. And similar to putting together a pro wrestling schedule for a program, every time that they bring together a group of contestants they always have a couple of those underdogs. You know, like a college student, who you can’t believe that somebody who’s so young is going to be going up against all of these folks with decades of experience. There’s always somebody who literally started baking in the last six months.”—Erika Heald
Q5: How can content marketers tap into emotions to create more engaging content?
Give a person—not just your brand—a byline on your content to help the reader gradually develop a connection with that author.
“That is another thing that’s really in favor of having your employees who author your content: having their names on the content. It’s still the case that sometimes you go to websites—and this is equally true for huge brands as it is for small startups—you’ll look at their blogs, you’ll look at their expert guides, you’ll look at all of this brand content, and it will say by and then the brand name. And we all know that the brand doesn’t have an AI in the basement that’s cranking out all of their content. They employ human beings who might use AI, but that’s a different conversation. But there are human beings behind creating all that content. And over time, your audience in your community will build relationships in their head and their hearts with those people. They’ll be like, ‘Oh, I always love when the blog posts are written by Todd because I know that I’m always gonna get a really fun video that makes me smile.’”—Erika Heald
Consider listing multiple contributors to reflect the range of expertise that went into your content.
“I know that not every employee knows how to write well, [but] you may draw from their expertise. So include them in there. I have seen other people do this, you can have like two or three authors on there. Maybe Erika wrote the article, but she drew from experience when Todd, and then on top of that, somebody else helped edit.”—Todd Jones
“I have a client, RGP, and all of the blog posts will have [multiple authors], because there might be that consultant whose name is on there as being the author, but they consulted with other people with specific areas of expertise in order to put that together. And rather than claiming that everything on that post came out of their brain and their examples, they give credit. And I think that’s really important, too.”—Erika Heald
Subject matter experts (SMEs) can help you quickly understand your audience needs and craft engaging content. We explain why subject matter experts are vital for thought leadership program success in this post, including how to find and activate your SMEs.
“I want to see more companies use subject matter experts, and you can definitely use internal subject matter experts. If you can start there, that’s great.”—Todd Jones
Q6: How else can content marketers become better storytellers?
Use details to immerse your reader in the story.
“I am influenced by storytelling outside of the marketing sphere, and one of the books that has influenced me a lot is Stories That Stick by Kindra Hall. She has some incredible advice out there as well. But one of the things she talks…. about [is] creating details. And it’s not just that you get real detailed, it is that you give enough details because our brain fills in the rest of it.”—Todd Jones
Ensure your reader can empathize with someone’s situation in your content.
“When you take a story and you have characters, another thing that helps with emotion is to say who the characters are. In this story, it’s Erika and Todd and the bulldog. And who am I going to be in the story? What person am I?”—Todd Jones
“There was a movie that came out several years ago, and it was a movie about one scene. But in the course of the movie, they showed it from different characters in the scenes’ perspective. It was fascinating. I think it gives you multiple dimensions. So if you keep it flat, you just say, well, this is what happened. But if you have some dialogue, you give some details, [explore who] the characters are, and suddenly you have a story. You’re not just telling, you’re not just saying just the facts, you’re telling the story. You start to add some depth to it.”—Todd Jones
Use storytelling to share examples and make abstract or complex topics easier to understand.
“Every point needs a example. If you can, maybe two or three examples. And certainly one of the best examples you can do is a story. But sometimes maybe it’s an analogy.”—Todd Jones
Trust in your readers’ intelligence.
“Sometimes brands put content out there where they really overdo it and overexplain the point of view. You need to assume that your audience is not stupid [and] they do have domain expertise [and] they do have life experience. You can give a couple of examples, you can show things from a different perspective, and they’ll get it. A lot of times, we can be a little too literal, a little too repetitive, when just bringing in that different perspective can be enough to make sure that the point is taken home by the person receiving it.”—Erika Heald
Artificial intelligence can help you round out your story and identify new perspectives to explore. And that’s just one of the many ways you can use AI for content marketing and storytelling.
“Go to an AI tool and say I’m writing about this, from the perspective of this person—which is your target audience, the person that you want to help—who would be the villain in this if this were a story? What would be the different perspective? Who in the organization would have a differing perspective from them about this situation, and what would it be? Because even if you’re not going to use that—and you know, you would never want to copy-paste it from the AI into your work—but sometimes, when you’re trying to think through the story, that can be a really nice way to get some of those ideas flowing.”—Erika Heald
Try new content formats. Investing in something different could be the key to stand out and drive engagement.
“Think outside the box. We tend to think about, ‘Oh, we’re gonna do this article. This is how we’re going to do content, marketing, whatever.’ That’s great. But I have yet to see many people create, what we called it when I worked at the bookstore is called a graphic novel. A comic series or a cool video or whatever. I think Hubspot’s doing these documentary-style videos for some businesses, which I thought was really cool.”—Todd Jones
